Interview on Church Planting and Multiplying Disciples
In September, Brian Norris of Citylight Church interviewed me, focusing on church planting and DGCC’s vision for reproducing discipleship:
In September, Brian Norris of Citylight Church interviewed me, focusing on church planting and DGCC’s vision for reproducing discipleship:
Who are your heroes? Who sets an example that you want to follow?
One of my heroes is Sundara Rao. The father of Vijay Sastry (who visited DGCC two years ago), Sundara died in Hyderabad, India earlier this week. He was 58.
Sundara spoke little English. He had no higher education. But he was a man who did all to the glory of God. He was a man whose joy in Jesus was sparklingly evident. He was a man who out of that joy left all and followed Jesus – whatever the cost.
Born into a high-caste Hindu family, Sundara came to know Jesus as a 17-year-old, while seriously ill with typhoid. During weeks of illness, he prayed to god after god. He rejected the offer of a local pastor to come and pray for him. But after his condition continued to grow worse and worse, he relented. When the pastor came, Sundara was drifting in and out of consciousness; he only heard bits and pieces of the pastor’s words. But he prayed to this pastor’s God: “If you are the real god, save me, and I will give my life to you.”
God did save him, both physically and spiritually. Sundara then eagerly studied the Bible to learn of this God – and came to understand that it is only through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross that any human can come before God. He embraced Jesus as Lord and Savior, and savored Him as his treasure.
But this devotion to Christ had a high cost. Sundara’s father told him he could not be a Christian. Sundara tried to honor his father – to express his devotion and love – but said that if he had to choose between his family and Jesus, he must choose Jesus. So Sundara was disowned, and sent out with nothing.
After a period of discipleship and training, Sundara became a pastor. Several years later he went to the village of Ventrapragada to plant a church. He began by ministering practically to the lower castes, living in their section of the village. Those of higher caste were unhappy to see one of their own mingling with those of lower caste, and approached him, offering him a place to stay in their section of the village. Sundara declined, saying he would live with those he was serving. Later the same higher caste folks asked him to come and teach them about Jesus. Sundara declined to hold separate meetings, saying they were welcome to his meetings with the lower caste folks. Jesus, he said, broke down all those barriers of caste and race. None came – for about a decade. But as Sundara cared for the sick of all castes and persevered in showing the love of Jesus to all, eventually those of higher castes began to come. The church today includes men and women from all caste backgrounds. As one elderly, high-caste villager said, “When you’re a Hindu, caste is everything. When you’re a Christian, Jesus is everything.”
Serving predominantly poor people, Sundara and his family had little to live on. But God provided for their needs – through gifts and, when necessary, through Sundara’s work as a laborer in farmers’ fields. On such days, after hours and hours of backbreaking labor, Sundara would come home, clean up, and go out to serve the poor and the sick, or to hold an evangelistic meeting.
From early days, Sundara invested in young men. Seeing the need for church planters and pastors all around him, he cast vision, offered training, and challenged personally many youth to take their faith seriously and to go out for the sake of the Name. Over the years, dozens of churches were planted from this small village church.
God eventually used Sundara’s son Vijay to multiply the church planting ministry into what is today Reach All Nations. I met Vijay in Minneapolis in early 2009, and first met his father that summer. I have since participated in several pastors conferences and church planter training sessions with them.
Two years ago, Sundara suffered a stroke that left him almost blind and partially paralyzed. Yet he fought back, and was able to participate in preaching and training once again. Last month he suffered a major setback, and had to be rushed to Hyderabad. He seemed to be on the mend until right before he died. “Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints” (Psalm 116:15). Sundara had finished his race. He kept the faith. He has received his crown.
Consider these Scriptural commands and exhortations in light of Sundara’s life:
Matthew 10:37-39 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Philippians 3:7-8 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ.
2 Timothy 4:6-8 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.
Will you pray with me?
Thank You, Father God, for Sundara, Your servant. Thank you for giving me the privilege of seeing so many biblical truths lived out in Sundara’s life. Thank You for saving him, for providing for him, for spurring him on to serve you with all his heart. O Father, may the ministry of Reach All Nations continue to build on the foundation Sundara laid, glorifying Your Name more than ever among the peoples of India. And may that same spirit of selfless giving shine through me and all of us at DGCC. May we be similarly focused and devoted to You, loving one another, serving those around us faithfully, proclaiming the Gospel with our lives and with our words – that we might live for Christ, count all else as rubbish, and love His appearing. Amen.
(We will install Karl Dauber as an elder this Sunday, following the unanimous vote in his favor at our members meeting of 20 January. These are the questions we will ask him, and two questions we will ask the congregation. Over the years, we have edited and added to the questions used by our friends at Capitol Hill Baptist Church.)
Do you reaffirm that the God of the Bible is the one and only true God, eternally existent in three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
(In a time of much doubt about the reality and character of God, we must stand firm on this most central point.)
Do you reaffirm your faith in Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, the Head of the Church as your Lord, Savior, and Treasure?
(That is: Do you believe in Jesus as your Master, who has a right to control your entire life? Do you believe in Him as your Savior, the only One who can pay the penalty for your sin and grant you entrance into God the Father’s presence? Do you see Jesus as your Treasure, worth more than all the world has to offer?)
Do you believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the Word of God, totally trustworthy, completely sufficient, fully inspired by the Holy Spirit, the supreme, final, and only infallible rule of faith and practice?
(We as elders acknowledge that we thus have no authority over what we as a church believe – faith – and what we as a church do – practice – except as we guide this congregation to follow God’s Word. We also admit that to put any other authority on an equal standing with Scripture is effectively to put that other authority over Scripture.)
Do you sincerely believe that the covenant and the Statements of Faith of this church contain the truth taught in the Holy Scriptures?
(Similarly, our covenant and Statements of Faith have derivative authority: we as elders affirm that we believe they are useful summaries of the truths of Scripture. But they have no authority apart from Scripture.)
Do you promise that if at any time you find yourself out of accord with anything in the Statements of Faith or covenant, you will on your own initiative make known to all the other elders the change which has taken place in your views since your assumption of this vow?
(Churches have frequently gone astray when following leaders who have gone astray. And many leaders have not been open concerning their doubts about the truths of Scripture. Elders here affirm that should their beliefs change, they will make that known – and therefore resign, unless the other elders and the church as a whole agree that the truths of Scripture are better stated in a different way.)
Do you promise to submit to your fellow elders in the Lord?
(Hebrews 13:17 holds for elders as well as for the rest of the congregation. This doesn’t mean that one elder always gives in to what the other elders desire. But elders should have an inclination to work as a team, a desire to be unified, a willingness to hear from others and to be persuaded by them. We don’t come together each representing part of the congregation and fight it out for our private subset of the congregation; each of us is working for the good of the entire body.)
Is it your desire, as far as you know your own heart, to serve in the office of elder from love of God and a sincere desire to promote His glory in the Gospel of His Son?
(That is, are you serving in this position for your own glory or for God’s glory?)
Do you promise to be zealous and faithful in promoting the truths of the Gospel and the purity and peace of the Church, whatever persecution, criticisms, opposition or discouragement may arise?
(All elders will face opposition – sometimes from outside the church, sometimes from loved ones within the church. An elder must be aware of the certainty of future opposition, and he must be prepared to continue to serve faithfully despite opposition. Similarly, discouraging circumstances and events will happen to every elder, and he must be prepared to continue the labor despite the discouragement.)
Will you pursue and strive for unity of this church, committing yourself humbly to a ministry of biblical peacemaking and reconciliation?
(An elder must be humble, gentle, bold and resolute in pursuing confession and repentance in himself and the flock. Restoration and reconciliation of fellowship with God and fellow believers within the flock must be an essential priority.)
In dependence upon Jesus Christ’s redemptive work in your life and by the power of the Holy Spirit, will you strive to love your wife as Christ has loved you and gave Himself for you?
(Elders are to be examples in all aspects of their lives; marriage is the area Satan is most prone to attack, and where, conversely, God can be most glorified by our faithful example.)
Will you be faithful and diligent in the exercise of all your duties as elder, whether private or public, and will you endeavor by the grace of God to adorn the profession of the Gospel in your manner of life, walking with exemplary piety before the congregation?
(That is: Are you going to walk the walk and not just talk the talk? “Piety” is not a word we use frequently these days; it refers to a godward orientation of one’s life, a respect for God that pervades all of one’s thoughts and actions. Who is equal to this? None of us, except by the grace of God.)
Are you now willing to take personal responsibility as an elder by God’s grace to oversee the ministry and resources of the church, and to devote yourself to prayer, the ministry of the Word, and the shepherding of God’s flock, in such a way that Desiring God Community Church and the entire Church of Jesus Christ will be blessed, built up, and protected against false teaching and division?
(Here we lay out the responsibilities of the elders: Prayer, the Word, and shepherding/pastoring the flock. As elders fulfill these three responsibilities, the entire Church is blessed.)
Questions to the Congregation:
Do you, the members of Desiring God Community Church, acknowledge and publicly receive this man as an elder – a gift of Christ to this church?
(Who is the Giver of this gift? God Himself! He is the One who raises up elders, not the existing elders and not the church. God equips men and raises them up to serve in this capacity. So praise God for your elders!)
Will you love him and pray for him in his ministry, and work together with him humbly and cheerfully, submitting to him and giving him all due honor and support in the leadership to which the Lord has called him, that by the grace of God you may accomplish the mission of the church, to the glory and honor of God?
(This is a wonderful summary of the responsibility of the congregation to the elders. How we need your prayers; how we covet your love. And note what happens when the congregation rightly loves, prays for, and submits to her elders: The church fulfills its purpose – glorifying God. May God be pleased to glorify Himself through this church as the elders and the congregation work together by His grace.)
(For a version of this devotion that is easier to print, follow this link.)
How does God use you? What is your personal ministry? Are you excited because you have seen results? Are you discouraged from lack of results?
Consider these words from the Apostle Paul:
Romans 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Whatever our personal ministry might be, if we see good results, we are tempted to pat ourselves on the back. We’re tempted to think, “I’m really something, given what I’ve done!” But Paul says that when we think clearly, when we think soberly, we see that our faith is all that matters – our faith in the One with all power, with all authority, who has given us whatever gifts and skills we have, and who Himself accomplishes whatever He wishes through us.
Paul elaborates on this idea in 1 Corinthians, when writing to those who were lining up behind one or another leader:
1 Corinthians 3:5-7 5 What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.
Those God chooses to work through for His good purposes are His servants. The work they accomplish is God’s work, which He assigns. Paul goes so far as to say that the workers are nothing. The work is all of God, from beginning to end. (more…)
(This is a summary of the last sermon in the six-part series, “God Gave Pastors and Teachers,” preached on July 20, 2008. The audio is available here.)
What do you expect from a pastor?
What do you expect from an elder?
Consider this description of the perfect pastor found in various forms on the internet:
The perfect pastor works every day from 7am until midnight and is a wonderful family man. He is content with a salary of $100 a week, wears stylish clothes, drives a late-model car, buys plenty of books, and donates $100 a week to the church. He is 29 years old and has 30 years pastoral experience. He condemns sin roundly but never hurts anyone’s feelings. He is enthusiastic about missions, but never encourages anyone’s child to live the rest of his life overseas. He makes 5 visits daily to members’ families, visits shut-ins and the hospitalized, spends all his time evangelizing the unchurched, never misses a committee meeting, and is always in his office when anyone calls. That’s the perfect pastor.
People tend to have high expectations of pastors – and they are often disappointed. Some end up hopping from church to church, trying to find someone who fits their ideal. Others work hard to get rid of each inadequate pastor who comes to their church, expecting to be able to find someone better. But then after a few months or a few years, the next man proves just as disappointing.
Surely God doesn’t intend us to church hop, nor does He intend us to trade in our pastors for a newer model every two years.
How should you handle disappointment in pastors and elders? (more…)
(This is a summary of the fifth sermon in the six-part series, “God Gave Pastors and Teachers,” preached on July 13, 2008. The audio is available here.)
What roles does the congregation play in the leadership of the church?
Do the pastors/elders have all authority, which the congregation must always follow?
Or is the congregation the final authority on every issue, able to overturn any decision of the elders/pastors?
How should a member of the congregation think about the pastors and elders?
Today and next Sunday we will look at several biblical passages that shed light on this question. We will see that the Bible clearly teaches that members should honor, respect, indeed, love their leaders. And they must submit to them.
But in the end it is the congregation as a whole that is responsible that the church teaches right doctrine. Elders are sheep, and some will wander from the truth – and will attempt to lead others astray. The church not only may but must deal with an errant elder.
We’ll look at four responsibilities of members of the congregation, which will serve as our outline. Next week’s sermon on how to deal with disappointments in elders will continue this theme.
The congregation must honor and esteem the elders 1 Thes 5:12-13, 1 Tim 5:17
The congregation must imitate their elders Heb 13:7
The congregation must obey/submit to their elders Heb 13:17
The congregation must watch over the teaching, purity, and unity of the church (more…)
This is a summary of the fourth sermon in the six-part series, “God Gave Pastors and Teachers,” preached on July 6, 2008. The audio is available here.)
What is a senior pastor, and why do we have one?
In this series, we are exploring what the Bible says about the role of pastors and elders in the local church. These are vital truths, often misunderstood in the church today, which are key for us to understand if we are to build a church that brings glory to God.
Let me remind you of some of what we’ve seen in first three sermons:
The first sermon focused on the centrality and necessity of preaching. The most solemn exhortation in all of Scripture precedes Paul command to Timothy to preach the word. God calls men to a preaching ministry, in part because naturally we don’t want to hear the Word – instead, we want to gather teachers to tell us what we like. A man who will preach the Word faithfully in season and out of season, whether people like it and large crowds come or whether they walk out, is a gift to the church.
The second and third examined biblical teaching on elders/pastors/overseers (which are all the same office.) The Holy Spirit makes them overseers, not man. They exist to help the church fulfill its threefold purpose:
Elders accomplish this through shepherding/pastoring. So think of shepherding/pastoring in the terms of Ephesians 4:12: Equipping believers for the work of ministry so that that we all might express joy, spread joy, and deepen joy in Christ. We saw that shepherding or pastoring is a comprehensive term for all that elders do: Preaching, teaching, and exhorting are all parts of shepherding. Indeed, the emphasis biblically in direct commands to elders is on prayer and the public aspects of ministry, though it is also clear that caring for the flock as individuals is important also.
We also noted that in calling us sheep, the Bible is not flattering us. Sheep are quite stupid; they are in desperate need of a shepherd. We have that shepherd, the Great Shepherd, Jesus Himself.
We also noted that human pastors/shepherds are actually sheep too. They must depend on the Great Shepherd, or they will accomplish nothing.
Finally, the ultimate goal of the pastors/shepherds is not healthy sheep, happy sheep, or well-fed sheep. Instead, the goal is for all of us to become the kind of sheep Jesus is: a sacrificial lamb. So the central task of the elder/pastor is to prepare you for sacrifice, to prepare you for laying down your life.
So: How do elders function together to accomplish this? Are there different types of elders? Are there authority relationships among elders?
The Bible doesn’t provide us with detailed instructions here, but it does give us some necessary guidelines. My goal this morning: To look at those guidelines, to describe how Fred and I understand them, and to communicate how we as a church will try to live that out, now and in the future. (more…)
(This is a summary of the third sermon in the six-part series, “God Gave Pastors and Teachers,” preached on June 22, 2008. The audio is available here.)
What is shepherding and why must elders do it?
When you read in Acts 20:28 that the elders are to shepherd the church of God, what images come to your mind?
What tasks that pastors or elders do constitute shepherding?
Since this is a serious biblical command, we had better understand it well.
To understand it well, we need to look at how the Bible uses the term
What is shepherding, biblically? (more…)
(This is a summary of the second sermon in the six-part series, “God Gave Pastors and Teachers,” preached on June 15. The audio is available here.)
Why do we exist as a church?
The glory of God is our goal. This is the reason we exist.
We as a church are not able to glorify God in some ways:
But what can we do, by His grace, through His power?
Basically there are three ways we glorify God:
1) We worship God corporately: proclaiming and singing and delighting in the glory of God
This gives God glory DIRECTLY
2) We proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those who don’t know Him
3) We build up the body of Christ
We can summarize these three ways in short phrases: We glorify God through:
Thus, elders exist to help the church fulfill the reason for its existence.
God gives pastors and teachers as gifts to the church, so that the church might become what He intends it to be. The growing, strengthening, thriving, worshiping bride of Christ. (more…)
(This is a summary of the first sermon in the six-part series, “God Gave Pastors and Teachers,” preached on June 1. The audio is available here.)
The title of this sermon series comes from Ephesians 4:11-14, which says, in part:
He gave the . . . pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Note that God gives pastors and teachers to the church.
Five main points: (more…)